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Forum: Home Brewing Seriously Technical: Seriously technical - bring it on!
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25/08/2009 at 10:53:58 AM GMT
Posts: 32
  
Subject: Seriously technical - bring it on!
This section of the forum is rather bare at the moment.

I have been home brewing a few years now and eagerly await some questions for me to answer.

I have a good scientific knowledge of brewing processes, but tend to ignore a lot of that knowledge when brewing and try things just to see what happens.

So, post some questions here and I will do what I can to help!
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25/08/2009 at 2:54:31 AM GMT
Posts: 80
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
D. Gottliebsen said:
This section of the forum is rather bare at the moment.

I have been home brewing a few years now and eagerly await some questions for me to answer.

I have a good scientific knowledge of brewing processes, but tend to ignore a lot of that knowledge when brewing and try things just to see what happens.

So, post some questions here and I will do what I can to help!
OK, here's one:
I want to try to brew a Bohemian pilsner using a mini-mash/extract recipe (whch I've yet to come up with, but which I'll probably cobble together from a bunch of other recipies I can find). I will probably end up using either bottled water, or Melbourne tap water which I've pre-boiled the night before.
a) What's the best way to hit the target gravity at 20 litres (probably about the 1.048 mark I think) using this mini-mash/extract approach?
b) Urquell uses soft water. How would you recommend I treat my water?
c) Any other recommendations.
I have a second fridge in the shed, so can do a proper lagering, etc. Last time I tried this I did all extract with German hops and Wyeast Bohemian Pilsner and it came out looking and tasting lik brown ale. Time and space restrictions mean I can't do a full mash. Any advice would be appreciated.
27/08/2009 at 11:38:07 AM GMT
Posts: 32
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
K. Hawley said:

I want to try to brew a Bohemian pilsner using a mini-mash/extract recipe...
a) What's the best way to hit the target gravity at 20 litres (probably about the 1.048 mark I think) using this mini-mash/extract approach?
b) Urquell uses soft water. How would you recommend I treat my water?
c) Any other recommendations.

a - dilute your wort out to about 18 litres and check the gravity, and add half as much extract as you think you might need. Then add small amounts of more water and/or extract to try and get closer.

b - Melbourne's tap water is very soft and is already perfect for brewing a pilsner. You shouldn't need to add anything.

c - If you are only doing a partial boil, make sure you add some extract so that the gravity of the wort you boil is similar to your target gravity, otherwise your hop utilisation will be different to what you expect. If your boil has a  lower sg, you will have higher utilisation and more bitterness than you expect in the final beer.

Lagers will show up any flavour defects so make sure give the yeast all the help it can get. Use a quality liquid yeast, consider building a starter to increase your pitching rate.
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27/08/2009 at 3:30:36 AM GMT
Posts: 80
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
D. Gottliebsen said:
K. Hawley said:

I want to try to brew a Bohemian pilsner using a mini-mash/extract recipe...
a) What's the best way to hit the target gravity at 20 litres (probably about the 1.048 mark I think) using this mini-mash/extract approach?
b) Urquell uses soft water. How would you recommend I treat my water?
c) Any other recommendations.

a - dilute your wort out to about 18 litres and check the gravity, and add half as much extract as you think you might need. Then add small amounts of more water and/or extract to try and get closer.

b - Melbourne's tap water is very soft and is already perfect for brewing a pilsner. You shouldn't need to add anything.

c - If you are only doing a partial boil, make sure you add some extract so that the gravity of the wort you boil is similar to your target gravity, otherwise your hop utilisation will be different to what you expect. If your boil has a  lower sg, you will have higher utilisation and more bitterness than you expect in the final beer.

Lagers will show up any flavour defects so make sure give the yeast all the help it can get. Use a quality liquid yeast, consider building a starter to increase your pitching rate.
Thanks very much for this, Dan. Yes, I usually do a starter, or get lazy and buy multiple yeast pouches. Do you think I'll need to do a diacetyl rest?
All I need to do now is book a day with the wife when she can take out the kids for a few hours, and leave me in peace to brew.

Thanks again

Kevin

Last edited on 28/08/2009 3:31:00 AM GMT
28/08/2009 at 8:32:12 AM GMT
Posts: 32
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
K. Hawley said:
I want to try to brew a Bohemian pilsner using a mini-mash/extract recipe...

Do you think I'll need to do a diacetyl rest?

If you have good temperature control and correct yeast pitching rate you minimise stress of the yeast in their initial growth phase so reduce diacetyl precursor formation, however you can't eliminate it all together and most people can detect the taste of diacetyl at about 2 parts per million. You can also reduce stress on the yeast by ensuring that if you use liquid yeast or a starter, that they are at the same temperture as the wort before pitching.

That said, it is still wise to perform a diacetyl rest, gradually raising the temperature by around 5 or 6 degrees over the last 2 or 3 days of fermentation. You will have to check the sg every day after the first few days to monitor how far fermentation has progressed. so you know when to start the rest.

A diacetyl rest is so easy to do that there is really no reason not to do it for any lager fermentation.

I just hope you bottle some of it so you can send me some to try...
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29/08/2009 at 2:55:34 AM GMT
Posts: 80
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
D. Gottliebsen said:
I just hope you bottle some of it so you can send me some to try...

Thanks again,

If it turns out well there will be a bottle with your name on it.

Kevin
14/09/2009 at 3:24:40 AM GMT
Posts: 80
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
D. Gottliebsen said:
K. Hawley said:
I want to try to brew a Bohemian pilsner using a mini-mash/extract recipe...

Do you think I'll need to do a diacetyl rest?

If you have good temperature control and correct yeast pitching rate you minimise stress of the yeast in their initial growth phase so reduce diacetyl precursor formation, however you can't eliminate it all together and most people can detect the taste of diacetyl at about 2 parts per million. You can also reduce stress on the yeast by ensuring that if you use liquid yeast or a starter, that they are at the same temperture as the wort before pitching.

That said, it is still wise to perform a diacetyl rest, gradually raising the temperature by around 5 or 6 degrees over the last 2 or 3 days of fermentation. You will have to check the sg every day after the first few days to monitor how far fermentation has progressed. so you know when to start the rest.

A diacetyl rest is so easy to do that there is really no reason not to do it for any lager fermentation.

I just hope you bottle some of it so you can send me some to try...
You know what? Last night I was having a Pilsner Urquell or 2 (reference material, you understand) and sticking my nose in the glass, and although I'd never noticed it before, there was the definite whiff of diacetyl. I think this doesn't detract, but even adds to the unique character of Urquell. So stuff the diacetyl rest.
I've got the ingredients now. I was also reading that 2 separate yeast strains are used in Urquell, so I've got 2 appropriate strains from Wyeast. I plan to split the wort in 2 and ferment one half with each, then blend them. I'll let you know how it goes.

Last edited on 15/09/2009 3:25:03 AM GMT
15/09/2009 at 1:44:03 PM GMT
Posts: 32
  
Subject: RE: Seriously technical - bring it on!
K. Hawley said:
Last night I was having a Pilsner Urquell ..... there was the definite whiff of diacetyl. I think this doesn't detract, but even adds to the unique character of Urquell. So stuff the diacetyl rest.


Just remember that if you have a pilsner with low diacetyl, you probably wouldn't notice it wasn't there because you would focus on the malt and hop character. But you have too high diacetyl, you will definitely notice it when your beer tastes like buttered popcorn.

Perhaps, when fermentation is approximately two thirds through, draw off some of the fermenting wort, warm it to room temperature and taste it to see how much diacetyl aroma/flavour you can detect. If it is not too bad then you can skip the diacetyl rest.
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